joey jojo

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Posts by joey jojo

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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

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  joey jojo

  Anony Mous
  there is a deeper core truth to the trinity that you can’t just reject from modern society without removing the underpinnings of the renaissance and by that modern science etc. which is why it was independently discovered in many religions as others here point out, it is a pattern that keeps appearing in India, in China, in Africa

  Its a little different everywhere around the world. It could equally be said that christianity mimics the hindu idea of creator/ preserver / destroyer.

  Birth / death/ rebirth is a topic that is not unique to christianity.

  Hindu's, muslims, sikhs, jews, buddhists and other groups dont believe in a trinity. That covers a big part of the worlds population.

  Much like mustard, I think it is an exhausting subject that comes down to whether you believe it or not, like everything else to do with religion. You said it yourself - its not provable. Religion, particularly catholics, have done all they can to retard science throughout the centuries. Shouldnt they welcome knowledge? Whats the point of persecuting scientists like copernicus and galileo that told the truth? Why does the wt censor anyone that disagrees? Its all about control and power - not truth.

  This is another argument over a stupid religious point that means a lot to some people, not because of any evidence but simply because they think they are right.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  This debate is a good demonstration of how blind faith works.

  The church (not god), arrives at a conclusion and it is set in stone. From this point forward, those that believe it are blessed and those that question it are called heretics and suffer. This continues for centuries.

  Unlike normal organisations, like businesses that have to adapt and justify their existence, the church expects all those around to change and adapt, whether they agree or not.

  The believers like it this way because they don't like change. They want something solid, even if it's demonstrably wrong. They would rather die in unquestioning ignorance than explore their own beliefs because to do so would take them to places they are uncomfortable. They don't want to experience how it feels to have their faith shaken because it scares them. It is far easier to have someone else do the thinking for you
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  The scriptures attached to your chart prove nothing. No one reading them objectively would form the conclusion that god = 3 seperate beings.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  The scriptures are cited in the chart. Which verses do you find objectionable?

  The trinity doctrine is often described as being 'mysterious' or 'paradoxical' by those that believe it and base their eternal soul on it being true or not.

  The concept of what god/ jesus is and their relationship should be easy to grasp and not require mental gymnastics. Scriptures clearly make distinctions between god and jesus, and most never mention 'the holy spirit'.

  Your belief is based on faith - not reason. You know that you are not your parent, why are you trying to convince others that god is his own parent?
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  The chart is only needed to present the biblical view.

  If by biblical you mean the 'biased view of a particular religious group' - then ok.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  
  Sea Breeze
  Apparently he can in this case. My chart above perfectly expalins it.

  A child cannot be their own parent.

  I dont believe a basic, fundamental belief that a child should be able to understand should require a chart- do you?

  Also, no chart exists that can prove a child can be their own parent.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  Just wanted to add. The debate about this springs, in part from the Nicene Creed. The use of Greek philosophy was being used to clarify scriptural understanding. The debate was around the question of - what is the essence of god?

  They were considering the Greek words ousia - substance and homoousios - essence, neither of which appear in the bible, to explain the relationship between the father and the son.

  To me (not an expert), this seems a lot like they were trying to use the 'science' of the time to answer a doctrinal question. The 'science' they were using was flawed from the start and that probably goes a long to explaining why the subject is still divisive after almost 2000 years.

  It didnt make sense then and still doesnt make sense.

  Whether you believe one or the other is personal choice. There is no objective evidence - there is only faith, which requires no proof.
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  51

  The unending and fruitless argument on Trinity

  by Longlivetherenegades in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .

  1. father .

  2. jesus .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  joey jojo

  Sea Breeze
  "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory". - 1 Tim. 3: 16 KJV
  If Jesus isn't "God manifest in the flesh" he could not have resurrected himself from the dead and the whole thing is a hoax, and Jesus is a liar and the worst of the worst charlatans.

  A child can manifest qualities/ traits of their parents but they remain seperate entities. A child cannot be their own parent. This scripture doesnt prove that jesus is automatically God.

  Just for the record, I dont believe any of it, I just wanted to point out the weakness of your argument.
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  167

  How did JWs arrive at a clearer understanding of what the Bible teaches than other Christian denominations?

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for jws who believe that jehovah had a hand in reviving the truth in the nineteenth century this is enough explanation for how jws managed to achieve a closer approximation to early christian beliefs and practices than other groups.

  but is there an explanation for this phenomenon that doesn’t rely on supernatural intervention?

  new testament scholar james dunn explains the difficulty of interpreting the biblical texts in this way:.

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  joey jojo

  The 19th century was a time of pseudoscience,medical quackery and blatant, un-regulated false advertising.

  Combine this with the growing technology that allowed information to be spread faster and you have the perfect environment for charlatans to take advantage of unsuspecting and trusting people.
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  121

  PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

  etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

  ) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

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  joey jojo

  Biden should have stepped aside earlier if they wanted Harris to have a better chance. Israel and Russia have taken full advantage of a perceived political softness of Biden - who was virtually retired while still in office.

  The pendulum of the world has shifted to the point where I think that a lot of people who previously despised Trump are happy to see him win.